The Art of Medicine: Dr. Carly Akehurst on Whole-Person Care and Better Healthcare Systems

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'm Rian Gauvreau, and this is Healing Healthcare, a podcast where we explore the challenges, innovations, and ideas shaping the future of healthcare. My guest today is Dr. Carly Akehurst, a naturopathic doctor and founder of Clementine Clinic in Vancouver, BC. Carly runs a practice focused on whole-person integrative care. She works closely with patients navigating chronic conditions, preventative health, and the deeper lifestyle factors that shape long-term wellbeing. She also understands the operational realities of running an independent clinic, the systems, the administrative friction, and the delicate balance between technology and human connection. Today, we'll explore what healing really means, where conventional systems fall short, and how innovation thoughtfully applied might help us build something better. Here's our conversation with Carly. Hello. I'd like to just explore a little bit about your background, and so I'd love for you to kind of take us through the journey about why you decided to become a naturopathic doctor versus a traditional MD, and I know that that was a deliberate choice for you, so I'm kind of curious about that, and how did that lead to the creation of your clinic, Clementine?

[00:01:16] Speaker B: Gladly. Well, thanks for having me. It's a delight to be here, and this is a story I love to tell, so I'll try and keep it short. I've been a naturopathic doctor for 14 years, which is wild to say. When I was doing my undergraduate at UBC, I really knew that I wanted to be in healthcare and I wanted to have a role in healthcare where I was able to work with patients in a capacity where I'd get to know them. So I wanted time, I wanted to know about people's lives and backgrounds, and I really wanted to develop what I consider to be relationship-based care. Right? You have somebody that you trust with your healthcare throughout your life. When I was in 4th year at UBC, I worked for a GP who I adored and ran a practice that was that relationship-based care. And towards the end of the time that I was working for her, she said, listen, I think if what you want is this type of care where you get to know someone, it may be hard to find that within the conventional system with what the future of medicine looks like. So I took that to heart, and I really thought about what is it that I actually want to do? What is the core of the day-to-day that I want to be doing with my work? The year before, I'd done a study abroad program called Semester at Sea, where I'd taken a class on the anthropology of healthcare and learned about different modalities of healthcare as they were delivered around the world. So I learned about acupuncture in Japan and Ayurvedic healing in India, and— Mm-hmm. Visited a hospital in Cuba, and so that really opened my horizons in terms of what type of healthcare was out there, and I happened upon the field of naturopathic medicine.

[00:03:08] Speaker A: Amazing. And so how does your journey kind of inform your care delivery model at Clementine Clinic, and what makes your business unique?

[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah, great question. I've been, like I said, I've been a naturopathic doctor for 14 years and I would say that, and perhaps some would disagree with me, but the practice of medicine also involves a lot of art. There is a way that we interact with our patients that becomes sort of like our signature, at least for me it does. When I opened and built and scaled Clementine, I wanted to teach others the art that I had learned and developed in my formative years in practice, I would say. And I really based that on my own personal practice values, but what became our clinic values of excellence, compassion, and integrity. And that really influences a lot of what I do, including how I built the clinic, but also how I interact and pride myself in patient care.

[00:04:17] Speaker C: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:17] Speaker A: So just digging into that a little bit more, like, you know, I think we hear a lot about the science of medicine, and I think science or medicine prides itself on being science-oriented, but, you know, I do think there's an element of art to every profession and every discipline, and so like, you know, tell us a bit more about like the art that you've learned and what makes it unique.

[00:04:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's easy sometimes to forget that Healthcare is really an interaction at a very personal level, right? We are seeing people at their most vulnerable. We are seeing people at some of the happiest moments of their lives, also some of the saddest or most scary. And I think that that relationship-based care that I was speaking of is really a part of, a critical piece of that healthcare delivery. In 2026, healthcare delivery has changed so much in the last 6 years. The pandemic changed a lot, but also technology is changing a lot too. And I think unlike other healthcare— or sorry, unlike other fields or careers, the way in which we interact with people on that core personal level requires a certain amount of tact, respect, you know, consideration for the whole person, not just, you know, the symptom in front of you.

[00:05:40] Speaker C: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:40] Speaker B: And that's really how I've tried to shape my approach to my own practice, in teaching others, in the clinic that I've built. And I'm grateful that I chose the profession that I did because I think it allows me the time, the freedom, the capacity to understand who it is that's sitting in front of you, what is their request really about, and all of the— look at the whole person, all of the pieces that make up why they might be feeling the way that they are at the moment or dealing with the symptoms that they are at the moment. Mm-hmm. Or all of those pieces that influence what's going on.

[00:06:17] Speaker A: Mm-hmm. So Carly, like, you and I have known each other for a long time now, and I think you're uniquely forward-thinking in terms of, like, I think you spend a disproportionate amount of your time considering or imagining, like, what the future of healthcare looks like. And I think you have kind of a unique perspective on that in that, you know, I think you've seen you know, how that's informed what's taking place in the naturopathic medicine community, but also in the broader medical community. And so kind of curious around like your take on, you know, what's happening in medicine, where do you think it's going, what excites you, and also what makes you afraid?

[00:06:56] Speaker B: Oh, I love this. Let's talk about the exciting stuff first.

[00:07:00] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:07:01] Speaker B: I think that in 2026, We are really at this point in time where we have the opportunity to change the way that healthcare is delivered. We know that clinicians are burnt out. We know that patients are burnt out of a lot of the systems that create barriers to care, right? We also know that brilliant people like yourselves have access, knowledge, ability to create tools that really break down those barriers and provide solutions for a lot of those pain points. For clinicians and patients alike. We know that primary care providers are disproportionately overwhelmed with an administrative burden, and we do have tools that meet the privacy requirements that we, we have in place that can really cut down on that administrative burden.

[00:07:51] Speaker C: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:52] Speaker B: So when I think about my own clinical practice and what care delivery could look like in 2026 and beyond versus what care delivery has looked like up until now, I think that's so exciting.

[00:08:06] Speaker A: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:06] Speaker B: I know I've mentioned this before, and we have known each other for a long time, so I've probably said it multiple times, but when I first started clinical practice, I could not access my patient charts outside of the physical clinic space. And when I was a new grad and learning and growing, that was a great, boundary-setting opportunity for me because I physically had to be at the clinic to do research on patient charts, finish charting, review outstanding patient appointments or labs or any of that kind of stuff. So it made for really good boundaries around that and helped me develop really good habits about finishing your charts by the end of the day. And I can tell you there were many nights when it was myself, the neurosurgeon and the cleaners finishing up our charting before we'd lock the door and headed home. I knew that cleaner very well.

[00:09:01] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:09:01] Speaker B: But it really, I think that thinking how far we've come from that time to now being able to essentially run a medical practice from your home, if required, or a small office or things like that, I think that there's so much opportunity there to streamline inefficiencies, to help alleviate that burden. And one of the pieces that really sticks with me from our first conversation together was helping clinicians sleep at night, not worrying that you haven't sent that prescription or haven't signed that chart or haven't done that referral or followed up on that thing that you said you would. And so I think that's the piece that's really exciting. We can deliver— better care faster in a more efficient way and allow clinicians to do what they really love to do, which is generally provide care and not do paperwork, and clinicians— or sorry, patients to access what they need. What I think is concerning is that we— the oversight can sometimes be challenging to break through, right? And I think that We're still in early days of looking at how that is deployed, but I think that the benefits so vastly outweigh the potential drawbacks and fears that ultimately it's really exciting.

[00:10:29] Speaker A: Mm-hmm. So in our last episode, we talked a little bit about how there's some challenge that exists in the system in that, you know, technology, you know, as I think is largely as a function of AI, is moving so fast right now. That the technology landscape is moving at a radically different pace than the regulatory landscape. And so kind of curious about your perspective on that, like, you know, how is that informing how you practice? How is that creating challenge in the industry? You know, it seems like on one hand, you know, there's all of this opportunity to unlock, you know, some of, or alleviate some of the challenge that faces the industry, but on the other hand, the industry won't move until the regulation is in the right place, and so just kind of curious on your perspective there.

[00:11:17] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's such an opportune time to discuss this. Here in BC, we've spoken about how the new HPOA guidelines are coming out April 1st, so that will affect my profession. And I think you're exactly right. I think regulation is slow to adapt. I would argue that many things in medicine are slow to adapt, but regulation in particular. Regulation is really important, right? We need guidelines, bylaws, the public needs to be appropriately informed, and I think that it's such an important part of providing medical care. In turn, we have privileges: prescriptions, injections, IV therapy, referrals, ordering labs, etc. And that allows us to deliver that care. I think, though, that there is so much catch-up that needs to happen in terms of what is reaching the broader community, whether that's through social media or online courses or even mainstream media, in terms of what people are saying and offering who may not be regulated. Mm-hmm. So maybe I can be more clear on that. It can be sometimes very difficult to be a regulated healthcare professional practicing within your own province, following the guidelines, writing prescriptions, in accordance with your regulatory college, and then at the same time have patients or colleagues or friends or others receiving medical information from perhaps an influencer, right, or a health coach who hasn't had 8 years of post-secondary education, or selling a supplement, for example, that we don't, you know— Yeah. There's a lot of challenge there on that lack of regulation, I would argue, right?

[00:13:10] Speaker A: So you kind of touched on a point that I'm sure every medical professional deals with on a regular basis, which is like Dr. Google and Dr. Wikipedia. And like, how is that influencing your practice? And obviously that probably, enables people to be a little bit more informed about their own situation, but also probably, like, I've certainly heard the maxim that like, if you use Google, all roads lead to cancer. And so like, I'm sure you probably end up with some patients that are, you know, have worked themselves into a situation. I'm just kind of curious, like, you know, you hear the anecdotes, but I'd love to hear it from somebody in your own words. Like, what do you think about that?

[00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah, this is not new.

[00:13:55] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:13:55] Speaker B: Right, just as Google is not new, this issue is not new. And I think any seasoned clinician would, would say the same thing. I think actually informed patients are excellent patients, and certainly all roads can lead to cancer when you Google it, but that's why having a regulated healthcare professional is so important, and drawing it back to that relationship-based care, right?

[00:14:19] Speaker A: Right.

[00:14:19] Speaker B: That's why having a healthcare provider that you trust, that you know practices with integrity, that you know is up to date on their information, I think that, You know, it was Google, now it's, you know, chat search engines, and et cetera, right? It's more of the same thing, but I think ultimately there is no real replacement for a licensed, educated, responsible healthcare professional. And when you develop that relationship with patients, like there have been, my patients know that like I'm going to call them out on it when they come in and they say, "I've decided that I have cancer." Mm-hmm. And that's, you know, like I would like you to confirm that. "Or send me to the appropriate professional," right? That's that route. I've had some patients that have been with me for that entire 14 years, right?

[00:15:11] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:15:11] Speaker B: So they know that I'm going to call them out on it and say, "Okay, so what did you find? So one option was cancer, one option was anxiety, one option was that you ate a bad banana or whatever. Let's walk through that and look at what those options are." I think that, Drawing it back to the informed patients piece, I actually think that being an informed patient is a really important thing. I really, and this is part of, I would, was part of my medical training, I think it's actually part of a lot of medical training, but part of our role is to educate and empower patients to understand the information as best they can to make their own informed health decisions. It's actually not our job to make those decisions for them, our job to present them with the information and help them to come to a conclusion. So I think that ultimately from a technology standpoint, it's a great thing because it means more people have access to more information.

[00:16:17] Speaker A: Yeah, great answer. You talked a bit about doctors that are, you know, up to date and educated, and we all know that doctors, are in many cases the most educated people in our society, but in some cases the education ends and then there's the updating and the staying in tune with things. And I know that you and I have recently had a conversation where I think you suggested that it can take a decade or more for new science that's landed on the medical field to find its way into primary care. Like if there's a medical innovation that arrives today and could help me, you know, I'd want to know about that. But like, it seems like the medical system takes a while to digest that and work it into their standard practice. And so like, I'm just kind of curious around like your perspective on that and like, how can the medical industry do a better job of making sure that that information is getting to the primary care providers that need to know it so that, you know, like the new science, the bleeding-edge science. I mean, this is really kind of what our podcast is partially about, is, you know, what are the interesting things that are happening on the bleeding edge of healthcare, and, and how is that potentially going to change everyone's health journey, right? And I, I think you have a very unique perspective on that, so I'd love to hear your take.

[00:17:36] Speaker B: Yeah, gladly. Um, and I love this conversation because I think it highlights how access to information has changed for clinicians in the last well, 6 months, year, but certainly the past decade. And I think we're right on the cusp of how it will further change again, right? Prior to sort of AI search engines and things like Open Evidence, which is a great resource to look for up-to-date information, UpToDate is another resource that we use, or that I use in clinical practice. Really, that information was found either in textbooks or on a PubMed search or on Google, right, to direct you in a particular way. And certainly formal continuing ed, so conferences, webinars, experts in the field, that's another way that that information is disseminated. But it does take a long time for that data, to then be verified, right, repeated studies, meta-analysis, that type of thing, then be made into a recommendation, and then for that recommendation to make it into clinical practice. That takes a long, long time, even with continuing ed. I think one of the other challenges is that, beautifully, medicine, healthcare, science, research is coming out, like, compared to, you know, 50 or 100 years ago, those updates are coming out at a volume where no clinician can reasonably stay caught up on. And it's important, obviously, because the patient in front of you deserves up-to-date care. And again, I'm excited about what those tools might look like because there, like I said, there's no way, especially for a generalist clinician, to be able to stay on top of all of those updated recommendations. I think that there is so much opportunity there for a change in how that information is accessed and how that information is disseminated to clinicians and shared within the community that can really drastically shrink that decade or more that it takes for those clinical updates to be made.

[00:20:00] Speaker C: Yeah. That's something my wife has actually come up against in primary care is not saying that she is like smarter than a doctor, but when she's getting advice that's clearly dated, but how do you communicate to your doctor that— How do you communicate that to your doctor without impacting their pride or their ego or having it come across as like an insult?

[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that relationship, right? Yeah. And like I said, it's really hard as a generalist clinician. So when we're talking about primary care, Really, in primary care, you're expected to know something about everything, right? And that's a very hard position to be in, much harder than it was 30 years ago, right, when you could know enough about thyroid health that you needed to refer someone. But now you need to know a lot more than something about thyroid health, right, and a lot more than something about perimenopausal care and children's health and UTIs and all of these other pieces, right? And so I think what's challenging is that I think primary care clinicians are in a very difficult position of trying to stay on top of things in addition to this large administrative burden, in addition to adapting to new technology, in addition to we're in the midst of a primary care crisis, right? So it's hard for people to access a primary care provider. Mm-hmm. Clinician. And yet, I think that patients do deserve the access to up-to-date care. So it's interesting, I've been prescribing hormones for more or less most of my clinical career, and the volume of data that has come out in support of menopause hormone therapy, is the new name for it, within recent years, and the number of clinicians that are now sort of of coming on board to realize that data and prescribe appropriately for women in midlife is changing by leaps and bounds. But it's almost unfair to expect that every clinician would be able to, every family doctor in the province would be able to be caught up on that, be able to prescribe at that same, have the knowledge and be able to prescribe in that way. And yet it creates this difficult position, right? Because the patient sitting in front of you perhaps they're suffering significantly with their symptoms. And so how do we— yeah, it's a tough situation, right? And that's where, again, I think technology, if there was a way to better disseminate that information to make it easier for clinicians to keep up to date. Yeah.

[00:22:49] Speaker A: So on the topic of technology, obviously it's a unique source of interest for us. What are you seeing kind of at the fringes of, you know, kind of medical technology that make you excited or, you know, inspire you that, you know, maybe things won't be as difficult as they currently are in the future?

[00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that there, and you and I have spoken about this before, there are so many inefficiencies across so many fields.

[00:23:23] Speaker A: Can you list them all for us?

[00:23:24] Speaker C: Oh, I absolutely could.

[00:23:25] Speaker B: How long do you have? But I'll give you an example. But there are— that really could be streamlined in a way and that would make delivering clinical care far less time-consuming, which means that maybe clinicians do have time to do a bit more research or some more continuing ed or see a few more patients and have a little bit more experience in a particular area, right? So to give you an example, Our current EMR, we, has done wonders for us, but doesn't have a streamlined, efficient way to send prescriptions. So we have a number of clinicians, naturopathic doctors at our clinic that prescribe, and I was explaining at lunch today what our workflow for what a prescription looks like. So we've essentially created a template within our, record-keeping system. That template that we've designed, we write the prescription, sign off on the chart, send a note to our front desk to say prescription's ready to send to the pharmacy on file. The front desk then prints that to a PDF so it attaches our, my signature to it and my college ID. That then gets entered into the fax system, faxed off to a pharmacy. Mm-hmm. And that's the end of that workflow unless the pharmacy has a question, in which case they usually either call the clinic or write it on that piece of paper, fax it back, it gets added back into the system, and then flagged for the doctor to review.

[00:25:01] Speaker A: I've already forgotten what the first step was.

[00:25:03] Speaker C: Right? I don't see what the problem is.

[00:25:04] Speaker A: Right? Thank you.

[00:25:05] Speaker B: What's the issue there? How at any one of those steps those points, could anything get lost?

[00:25:11] Speaker C: What do you do with all your free time then?

[00:25:12] Speaker B: I know. Study, right? And so that's one of many aspects, right, where we've created this workflow that's not particularly efficient. And in that conversation that I had at lunch today, one of the things that I said was, you know, I'm a clinician. I've been trained as a clinician. When somebody sits down in front of me, my first thoughts are, How can I help you? What's going on? And I wanna know like, what are the circumstances that led to you seeking my help? I don't have a lot of experience in— I'm gaining it, but I don't have a lot of experience in business, right? And how those interactions happen or looking at workflows and how do we create them more efficiently. It's almost a whole new language. And so I think when you look at that, we're as an example, and you multiply that by almost every process within the clinic, it's very time-consuming. Yeah.

[00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think you're basically like— what you described is a microcosm of I think what we've seen everywhere. You know, we've talked to hundreds of doctors over the years and I think what we've seen is that, you know, it's not medicine, you know, the practice of medicine that, you know, people find I know it's hard, but, you know, I don't think that that's where people are burning out. I think it's like all the other stuff around it. Is that accurate?

[00:26:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. And there have been a few articles actually in recent media local to BC about this in particular. Most go to medical school or naturopathic school or go into the healthcare field because they're passionate about the care. They're not passionate about the paperwork, right? And so It's one of those things that I think that all of a sudden you can, it sort of builds slowly over time. So I eventually, from that clinic where I couldn't access my charts unless I was physically at the clinic, that all over the course of 14 years means that I can access my information from secure, you know, technology almost anywhere, right? Mm-hmm. And I have responsibilities around that that I would like to say that I do oblige. You know, I'm not looking, patient charts in a coffee shop, for example. That's not happening, but it does mean that I, you know, I could be on holiday with my family and still have access to that care. And I think that— or access to that information if I needed it. And I think what's happened is over time that means that the lines are blurred, and that means that that administrative burden comes home with you sometimes, or all the time. Mm-hmm. Right? And going back to what we spoke about, you know, if you're lying in bed in the middle of the night and thinking, "Oh no, like Mrs. Jones needed like her, like whatever, her heart medication and I haven't refilled it," you could actually get up and, you know, finish that or send that prescription to make sure that they needed it on time. And I think that just demonstrates that the clinical care is what most clinicians are really passionate about.

[00:28:17] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:28:18] Speaker B: Right, not about the administrative piece. And I think a good example of that is how AI scribes have changed the landscape a little bit. So—

[00:28:29] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and like, so, you know, I want to get to the question around, you know, like, you know, what kind of new and innovative technologies are you using and how have they had an impact on your practice, but First, I was kind of curious around, I think it's, I've certainly experienced this in coming, transitioning from the legal industry to the medical industry. I'm learning a lot about the unique challenges that are facing medical professionals today. And I actually think it's probably lost on a large percentage of the audience, or patients at large, what doctors actually go through. I just want to put the question to you, like if you had, or you have the mic here and you were to share with your patients like what a day in the life of a doctor nowadays looks like, what things would you want patients to know about what it's like to be a doctor? Because I think we all have the, we watch ER or The Pit is now the big show and I think like you get this idealized notion of these doctors in these glamorous environments and I don't think that's the reality for most people. So what's it like?

[00:29:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a really good question, and I think that's a really astute point that a lot of people don't— wouldn't necessarily know. And love the pit, loved ER when I was a kid, but it is not as glamorous as it would appear, shockingly.

[00:29:56] Speaker C: And I should say—

[00:29:56] Speaker A: Noah Wiley makes everything look good.

[00:29:58] Speaker B: I know, right? And I should say, like, I'm not in hospital, so I do know some very glamorous doctors that work at the hospital, so maybe their life is actually like the pit, but in my clinical practice, it's not. I think the one piece that comes to mind for me, thinking about my own practice, is holding space, right? We hold space for a lot in a day, and when— so my visits run typically half an hour to an hour, which is a lot of time in primary care. Many primary care providers have less than 10 minutes, But if you imagine, you're working with someone at, as I said, at that deep personal level. So someone might come in and say, you know, "I have this weird spot on my arm and I'm wondering what you think about it." And then you do your best assessment, you recommend that they follow up in whatever way, you write your prescription, whatever. But then the next person comes in and they maybe lost a pregnancy and you're delivering that news. Mm-hmm. And maybe the next person comes in and they finally have a diagnosis for their child that means that they will have proper supports so that the physical symptoms of their burnout might actually get better. And then the next patient maybe finally has their cholesterol under control while they've been working at it for 3 years to change their diet and their lifestyle. And then somebody else lost their mom. And then the next person, you know. So really, I really would love, I love that you've given me a platform to speak about this because I think it is sort of an improperly acknowledged aspect of healthcare, especially primary care, where you're holding space for a lot of people in a day, sometimes in their most vulnerable moments, right? Mm-hmm. And I had, I think it's such an interesting juxtaposition between healthcare and law. Law can be very personal as well, and you're holding space for people, again, in potentially very vulnerable moments.

[00:32:04] Speaker A: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:06] Speaker B: I think one of the aspects of healthcare that— and I shouldn't speak to law, I'm not a lawyer— but one of the aspects of healthcare that I think is unique is that perhaps I didn't refill Mrs. Jones' heart medication and she didn't get it the next day, and then I forgot about it. She could be at risk potentially of having a cardiac event, right? And not only would that be potentially negligence on my part, but you have that responsibility for someone's health and life, right? And that's the oath that we take. But certainly— Mm-hmm. Most, and if not all healthcare providers that I know, really take that seriously and really care a lot about that.

[00:32:57] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:32:58] Speaker B: Right?

[00:32:58] Speaker A: Yeah, no, and I think that's an important point is that like, you know, I think that there is absolutely unique challenge in the law and as there is in medicine, but I think, you know, it may not necessarily universally be true, but I think most lawyers would say that if I didn't finish this casework, my client's not going to die. And, and, you know, I think that that probably gives them a little bit more comfort at night when they're trying to get to sleep than, than most doctors I think enjoy. Um, uh, so yeah, thanks for sharing your perspective. I, um, you know, I think it's a question I want to ask more regularly because I think it's, uh, I, I think it, it's hopefully a gift to doctors that, like, you know, this is maybe a platform where they can share a little bit more about, like, what's going on for them. Because I actually don't think doctors get to talk about that a lot. I think it's just kind of this is just the pain that I eat on a daily basis and it's mine and I don't talk about it. But I think maybe there would be more empathy on the part of patients if they had a deeper appreciation of what— I know certainly I show up at my doctor's office and sometimes they're running really late and I'm like only focused on the impact to my time, not really realizing that hey, they might have dealt with a whole lot of stuff and there's a very legit reason for the— you know, them to be delayed. And so the empathy helps me too.

[00:34:11] Speaker C: So in our first podcast, we talked about this idea of the break-and-fix model of healthcare, and you obviously exist in a different space where you can provide that proactive healthcare for people who want to be at their healthiest, as opposed to just something is wrong Fix it. I'll see you when the next thing is wrong. I'm interested in like, what does that— from your perspective, how do you suggest, or do you think it's even possible to change that delivery, um, within the healthcare space when people get 10 minutes with their doctor at most?

[00:34:56] Speaker B: I think it's really tough. I think it's really tough, and I think one of the challenges there too is that you end up almost with the dreaded word two-tier system, but you do, because you end up with people who can afford to pay for more time with an educated clinician, registered clinician, right? So I do think it's possible because I think that wellness, longevity, preventative care is actually, can be relatively simple to deliver, right? But it does create this necessity for a shift in how we're looking at things. Unfortunately, with the way that our current system, fortunately or unfortunately, with the way that our current system is funded, is it doesn't allow a lot of space for that. But I had a great conversation about this last week with a friend that—

[00:35:49] Speaker A: Um.

[00:35:50] Speaker B: You know, it does allow, if you need really urgent care and you need trauma care or you need life-saving interventions, the system does generally show up for you in pretty incredible ways, right? This is one of the things that I think is so amazing about technology like Aeon really is that prevention, wellness, longevity is, really can draw from a lot of data points that are not that difficult to collect, right? But we don't have a great system that allows us to track those data points over time. And that's one of the pieces that really excites me about my work with Aeon is because I think actually we could potentially build something that would allow you to track what's your iron doing, what has your cholesterol been doing over the past 3 years? Okay, let's make this dietary change. What does it do now, right? And have more of that information readily available at your fingertips than currently is. I really feel that 2026 and beyond is an incredible time for us to look at how healthcare can collaborate. I spent the first 8 years of my career in a large integrative clinic where we were able to deliver care in a— in a beautiful way that meant the patient was able to receive the best of both worlds. I love evidence. I love practicing evidence-informed care. And I think that we have good evidence for things like vitamin D supplementation, right? We also have good evidence for using antidepressants, right? And so I think looking at all of those pieces really means that we have an opportunity to optimize patient outcomes and in a truly collaborative way. And that, I think, is what's really exciting to me.

[00:37:39] Speaker A: me. That's exactly what this podcast is about. And Carly, I can't thank you enough for being here. You're always an inspiration. I hope that we can invite you back and have you on many future episodes because I always think you have something unique and insightful to share. So once again, thank you for being here, and we look forward to seeing you again.

[00:38:01] Speaker B: My pleasure.

[00:38:04] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to Healing Healthcare. I'm Rian Gauvreau. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.